Sebastian Marketsmueller's presentation on Flash 3D Molehill

[Carlos Nazareno]

More details on Molehill. Check it here.

Flash Player 3D Future
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2010-develop/flash-player-3d-future

An interesting point here is that Molehill is too low-level and it's
still the jobs of outfits like Alternativa, Away3D, (and Papervision, I
hope?) to do the engines to make it easier for developers to do their 3D
stuff.

The stuff 3rd party Flash 3D engine developers do isn't Adobe's core
strength, so IMHO, it's best that Adobe lets them do what they do in
that ecosystem.

Oh, regarding Unity3D Player, despite its being extremely advanced, it
doesn't have Linux support, does it? I guess that's a very good point
for using Flash 3D then.

-Naz
--
Carlos Nazareno
http://www.object404.com
http://twitter.com/object404
--
Core Team Member
Phlashers: Philippine Flash Actionscripters
http://www.phlashers.com
--
"if you don't like the way the world is running,
then change it instead of just complaining."

[Makc]

Post by Carlos Nazareno
Oh, regarding Unity3D Player, despite its being extremely advanced, it
doesn't have Linux support, does it? I guess that's a very good point for
using Flash 3D then.

really? http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3818696/Linux-Desktop-Market-Share-Greater-Than-One-Percent.htm

[Zac Jones]

[Mark I. Ross]

can't you ppl read the instructions?? you have to unsubscibe yourself.

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[aYo ~]

You're right - It does not -the sole reason I have never tried Unity -
absolutely no Linux support
~a~
www.designstreet.net
www.ayobinitie.com
http://mrbinitie.blogspot.com

Post by Carlos Nazareno
More details on Molehill. Check it here.
Flash Player 3D Future
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2010-develop/flash-player-3d-future
An interesting point here is that Molehill is too low-level and it's still
the jobs of outfits like Alternativa, Away3D, (and Papervision, I hope?) to
do the engines to make it easier for developers to do their 3D stuff.
The stuff 3rd party Flash 3D engine developers do isn't Adobe's core
strength, so IMHO, it's best that Adobe lets them do what they do in that
ecosystem.
Oh, regarding Unity3D Player, despite its being extremely advanced, it
doesn't have Linux support, does it? I guess that's a very good point for
using Flash 3D then.
-Naz
--
Carlos Nazareno
http://www.object404.com
http://twitter.com/object404
--
Core Team Member
Phlashers: Philippine Flash Actionscripters
http://www.phlashers.com
--
"if you don't like the way the world is running,
then change it instead of just complaining."
_______________________________________________
Papervision3D mailing list
http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org

[Merrill, Jason]

Unity3D does not have the market penetration Flash does. And it's focused on games, not a general purpose player like the Flash to deliver RIAs, videos, etc.

Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning






From: papervision3d-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:papervision3d-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of aYo ~
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:13 AM
To: naz-9ZB+***@public.gmane.org; papervision3d-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sebastian Marketsmueller's presentation on Flash 3D Molehill

You're right - It does not -the sole reason I have never tried Unity - absolutely no Linux support
~a~
www.designstreet.net<http://www.designstreet.net>
www.ayobinitie.com<http://www.ayobinitie.com>
http://mrbinitie.blogspot.com

On 13 November 2010 04:08, Carlos Nazareno <naz-9ZB+***@public.gmane.org<mailto:naz-9ZB+***@public.gmane.org>> wrote:

More details on Molehill. Check it here.

Flash Player 3D Future
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2010-develop/flash-player-3d-future

An interesting point here is that Molehill is too low-level and it's still the jobs of outfits like Alternativa, Away3D, (and Papervision, I hope?) to do the engines to make it easier for developers to do their 3D stuff.

The stuff 3rd party Flash 3D engine developers do isn't Adobe's core strength, so IMHO, it's best that Adobe lets them do what they do in that ecosystem.

Oh, regarding Unity3D Player, despite its being extremely advanced, it doesn't have Linux support, does it? I guess that's a very good point for using Flash 3D then.

-Naz

--
Carlos Nazareno
http://www.object404.com
http://twitter.com/object404
--
Core Team Member
Phlashers: Philippine Flash Actionscripters
http://www.phlashers.com
--
"if you don't like the way the world is running,
then change it instead of just complaining."

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[tomsamson]

One can do more things than games with Unity of course, but yeah, iŽd give you a point there regarding RIAs and video delivery, that kind of stuff can be done with unity, to some extend, too but its not the main focus.
When you talk about flash having higher market penetration thatŽs a wrong term though. One can say flash has a bigger player penetration on the web, but not that it has a bigger market penetration in general.
Otherwise youŽre on shakey ground, just compare how many of the most sold iOS apps are made with unity ( a lot ) with how many of those are made with flash (close to zero if not zero).
Also, yeah, flash has no native deploy option for Wii, PS3, Xbox 360.
Regarding no linux support: Unity will run via native client on linux soon, too.
I donŽt know why people discuss the same points over and over, its pretty obvious: flash has high plugin penetration for the web and has a lot of features making it useful for creating 2D RIAs and video delivery stuff, in return performance is terrible on most platforms and the editor fell behind on many fronts, especially regarding usability and integrating newer api features into visual workflow.
If youŽre ok with doing 2D stuff on the web, flash is a good choice for the time being, for everything else, well, maybe consider something more fitting.

Unity3D does not have the market penetration Flash does. And it’s focused on games, not a general purpose player like the Flash to deliver RIAs, videos, etc.
Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning
Sent: Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: [Papervision3D] Sebastian Marketsmueller's presentation on Flash 3D Molehill
You're right - It does not -the sole reason I have never tried Unity - absolutely no Linux support
~a~
www.designstreet.net
www.ayobinitie.com
http://mrbinitie.blogspot.com
More details on Molehill. Check it here.
Flash Player 3D Future
http://tv.adobe.com/watch/max-2010-develop/flash-player-3d-future
An interesting point here is that Molehill is too low-level and it's still the jobs of outfits like Alternativa, Away3D, (and Papervision, I hope?) to do the engines to make it easier for developers to do their 3D stuff.
The stuff 3rd party Flash 3D engine developers do isn't Adobe's core strength, so IMHO, it's best that Adobe lets them do what they do in that ecosystem.
Oh, regarding Unity3D Player, despite its being extremely advanced, it doesn't have Linux support, does it? I guess that's a very good point for using Flash 3D then.
-Naz
--
Carlos Nazareno
http://www.object404.com
http://twitter.com/object404
--
Core Team Member
Phlashers: Philippine Flash Actionscripters
http://www.phlashers.com
--
"if you don't like the way the world is running,
then change it instead of just complaining."
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http://osflash.org/mailman/listinfo/papervision3d_osflash.org
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[Merrill, Jason]

. One can say flash has a bigger player penetration on the web [than Unity],
but not that it has a bigger market penetration in general.

Do you have some hard numbers you can point to? That seems unlikely, even given your explanation.

Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning






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[tomsamson]

Watch the unity keynote address where they list how many of the most sold iOS apps are made with unity.
Next to that, why do i need numbers, its pretty simple: Flash performance sucks on all current mobile devices compared to other middleware solutions and flash has no native deploy option at all for any of the consoles.
So yeah, if one option doesnŽt run on all game consoles and at laughable performance on all portable devices, whereas the other is available on all major consoles and achieves good performance on portable devices, hm..
AdobeŽs hype slogan with the player penetration is so outdated and they for sure know it, but right now its their last big argument for using flash for web content instead of unity, html5 or other solutions where those would be better options. (Yes, still many things can be done for the web with flash which are not possible to do with html5 or other options but likewise, there are also more and more things which can be done just as well or even better with other options, so already for wbe deploy it would be a good idea to consider other factors rather than just player penetration).
The player penetration automatically automatically isnŽt worth a dime ( = doesnŽt matter at all) once one talks about portable devices of course. There it matters way more what achieves great performance and can use the deviceŽs/ sdkŽs / OSŽs features to the max nicely, preferred in native app form.

Post by Merrill, Jason

. One can say flash has a bigger player penetration on the web [than Unity],
but not that it has a bigger market penetration in general.

Do you have some hard numbers you can point to? That seems unlikely, even given your explanation.
Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning
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[Merrill, Jason]

That's hilarious.

And number of most sold iOS apps doesn't automatically translate to "has more market penetration". If you can't back up your claim, then don't make it.

Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning



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[tomsamson]

That i donŽt want to waste time searching for figures for you doesnŽt mean a claim canŽt be backed up.
AdobeŽs claims are hilarious because no one besides Adobe and Adobe supporters believe them anymore.
Where is the proof that flash runs at comparable to native apps or other middleware made apps performance on any of the current mobile devices?
When a presenter from a publishing house asks an Adobe representative on stage at an Adobe presentation at an Adobe conference if thy can improve things because something particular they wanted to do for a 2D magazine app isnŽt possible due to too high memory consumption on flash app side while with other middleware people are doing things like Epic Citadel running fine on the same device, man, what is there left that i have to prove you?
On how many Android devices does flash made content run TODAY? Not many, right? Take a fraction of a subset of Froyo enabled devices.
On how many does it run comparable to stuff made with other milddleware solutions? ZERO.
At the same time with other middleware solutions one can create Android apps running on all android devices and generally at way better performance, next to allowing to use way more of the features of the device sdk/ OS.
If you donŽt believe the simple obvious facts and neither are into comparing various middleware solutions on various platforms, then yeah, thatŽs up to you.

That’s hilarious.
And number of most sold iOS apps doesn’t automatically translate to “has more market penetration”. If you can’t back up your claim, then don’t make it.
Jason Merrill
Instructional Technology Architect
Bank of America Global Learning
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